I just got an interesting message from a reader, which led me down a separate but also interesting line of thought.
I apologize in advance to those of you who are already tired of this topic, but for those who are willing to discuss, I have a question about love triangles in fiction, and I could use some opinions.
And for the record, though I'm about to use theoretical examples from my own work, this isn't about any particular book (of mine, or anyone else's). I'm just curious, on a general level. Though also for the record, I get letters from people who hate the fact that Faythe is in a love triangle, and I also get letters from other people who hate the fact that Kaylee isn't in one.
How do you define a love triangle? Do all three points of that theoretical triangle have to be interested? Does an interest in someone who's already involved with someone else constitute a love triangle in fiction? For example...
MAJOR SHIFTERS SPOILERS!!!
... Would you consider Faythe, Marc, and Jace to have been members of such a triangle before Faythe and Jace acted on their attraction?
On one hand, I'm thinking no, because Faythe wasn't involved with them both. But on the other hand, I'm thinking maybe yes, because she definitely had options.
From another perspective, do you consider a relationship to be a triangle if a couple splits up, then one member winds up with someone else, but the ex retains an unrequited love? For example...
MAJOR SHIFTERS SPOILERS!!!
... If Marc and Faythe break up and she winds up with Jace, but Marc always loves her, is that still a love triangle?
Food for thought, huh? So... What are you thinking? And please, no "I hate love triangles" comments. I understand that sentiment, and in general, I'm inclined to agree, but the general like or dislike isn't what I want to discuss here. I'm more interested in establishing a working definition.
WARNING: COMMENTS MAY CONTAIN MAJOR SPOILERS FOR MY (and others') BOOKS!!!!
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About Me
- Rachel Vincent
- I’m an urban fantasy and young adult author, journaling my experiences in publishing.
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32 comments:
As much as it pains me to read them, I love love triangles. Sometimes, as in the Faythe triangle, it literally makes my heart ache.
I think a love triange is any relationship with a third party-whether the third is desired or has desire for, there is a conflict with the original couple.
I did not consider Jace and Faythe to be in a triangle untill after that encounter. Maybe it lingered before, but the maturity and the distance of the characters seemed to make them view each other more intensely.
Unrequited love, yes-chances are the original couple both share some sort of lingering feelings. Unless it ended on really bad terms, but even so, you can't erase history.
For the first example - no not yet a triangle but the foundation for one. It would be enough to see the chemistry but as a reader I know I would always wonder about the third one...do they ever act on it, where does his story go? etc.
On the second example - yes definitely still a love triangle. Unrequited love is not easy to ignore especially in a tight situation such as your example.
As for my feelings on triangles - I don't shy away from them in my own writing. For me the key is to keep them fresh.
Make the reader love/hate all three characters at different points in order to keep the attraction. There is nothing better than the growth a character/person can experience when faced with the decision to hurt/love someone that they never wished to hurt/love. It changes a character and definitely affects the reader.
Great topic - it never bores me as a writer to explore character development/relationships. ;o)
Visit My Kingdom Anytime
I love love triangles, because they represent two possibilities. Which are usually between choosing something you know over something that you don't.
For me a love triangle is all bout the variables, because no one love triangle is the same as another. So its kind of hard to define as a whole.
I think that in books as in real life the only things about love triangles that stays the same is that you always have to make a choice. Like with Faythe she has two choices. Choosing between a relationship that's effortless and that she has known all her life. Or opening up to the possibility that sometimes what you know is not what you need, and that maybe there is someone else who is good for her.
I haven't read the Shifters series but...
If for instance since Kaylee and Nash are sort of broken-up while he gets better, if somehow Kaylee gets close to Tod... that would definitely be an interesting triangle (though of course difficult since Tod's dead ;)
But I want her to end up with Nash!
I think in the case of the unrequited love I wouldn't classify it as a triangle. I usually think of a triangle as the parties actually being involved at the same time (exp Kaylee dating both Tod and Nash at the same time.)
I don't mind reading them so long as the character picks the person I like.
I love love triangle because sometimes they can make books more interesting.
As for me a love triangle is more about the choice that you have to make. Because the variables change, but in every love triangle I think that the biggest thing is the decision.
Love triangle to me are about deciding what road your life will take. Because either choice will inevitably lead to a different life. And the choice is usually between choosing something safe and being comfortable for the rest of your life. Or the other choice, which is giving yourself a chance to explore something that may not be safe, but can be something special if you give it a chance.
(I'm a sucker for love triangles) I would say both situations are a love triangle. In the first instance, although they hadn't acted on it yet, the attraction was there and Jace was actively attempting to woo her. The option was there if she suddenly decided his woo was wow. The second scenario is maybe a bit iffy but I think if the history was there and he still loves her it would be a triangle too.
My opinion comes from a personal perspective in that if I had feelings for two men regardless of how they felt about me I think that would be a love triangle. I think whether or not it is a love triangle is all a matter of perspective.
With that said how I feel I have come to know Faythe as a character I really can't picture her not having romantic feelings of some kind for both men....
I feel that the relationship between Faythe, Jace, and Marc was heading towards a love triangle even before she slept with Jace.
If you looked at it from Jace's perspective and not Faythe's he had very strong feelings for her but she was with Marc...three people involved in Jace's equation so form his perspective I would say it was a love triangle.
Again I think it is all a matter of perspective.
I love to hate love triangles. They make for a very engaging read but when you create two characters that I love equally as a reader it brakes my romantic heart just a little to know she will have to choose. Unless you go the way of Laurell K Hamilton and then you get to have your cake and eat it to!
I am afraid to read the last novel! I love Jace and Marc both....thank goodness I don't actually have to make that choice. I don't envy Faythe.
Love the Shifter series and I am sad that as a reader the story is soon to end.
Lindsey @ http://thebookgurugrl.blogspot.com/
love triangles are very tricky, but i would only call it as such if there are literally 3 people in that situation.
i wouldn't have called the whole Marc, Faythe, and Jace thing a love triangle until Faythe and Jace were actually intimate. now that their feelings run deeper for each other and it isn't a one time thing, it would be called a love triangle.
and if the person (ex: Faythe) finally chose someone and left the other, it wouldn't be called a love triangle anymore because she's in one relationship now instead of two; thus ending the love triangle. even if the other person was in love with her, it wouldn't matter; because he is no longer in a relationship with that person.
sorry if it doesn't make sense, i'm not very good at explaining things, but hope it was helpful!
michelle c.
I get frustrated with love triangles when there seems to be a deep connection with two of them to begin with. Like with Faythe and Marc. They were a couple for a long time and even when Faythe came back there was still romantic tension and things started going back to old times and they were practically a couple again.
Then comes Jace in Prey and it ruins everything--sorry Jace fans--but Faythe and Marc were finally becoming a more stable couple despite Marc's kidnapping and everything and then in Shift, Jace was being a little childish in his behavior. True he didn't want to be under Marc's thumb anymore and defied him whenever possible, but his snide jokes that he told to get Faythe riled up when Marc was around was uncalled for. **Don't get me wrong, I loved reading all the books, and his actions are normal in society, but still it annoys me sometimes.
But other times love triangles can be a little more fun and entertaining. Especially when there was no established relationship to begin with. Like with the Vampire Diaries--the books--Elena was sort of torn between the two but then turned to Stefan, even though she remained somewhat torn, but whatever. When there is no established relationship to begin with, love triangles are more enjoyable I think.
Of course I am a Team Marc member, so my opinion may be a little biased. I like to think of relationships being true and real and not about being with someone for a short amount of time, have a fling with someone else and then say you love both people but can't decide who you really want to be with. It may happen in real life, never to me--which I guess is a good thing...but still I never could understand how you could really love 2 people and may even want to be with them both at your own leisure. It seems selfish.
Again, I don't want to say that this is all wrong when writing, when writing it can be fun and frustrate readers in a *cough* good *cough* way, because it gives us something to debate and talk about for the months between books. I guess I usually get too involved with my reading and think of the characters as real people and I wouldn't like seeing this kind of thing in real life.
Call me old school I guess, but I like it when people remain true to one another and know that they love each other and not maybe love someone else too.
Again, I know that in real life and in fictional worlds this may not always be the way things happen.
As many Pride members know I walk the middle line, I see things in both points of view, so I really could go all day on this topic but I will stop here because I wrote enough and if any fellow Pride members are reading they are likely laughing and saying, "Yep, that's Jess!"
I love a good love triangle. I especially love it when both choices are wonderful. I think a true love triangle is created anytime a third party makes an appearance and is truly threat to the couple. For instance, I think the love triangle between Marc, Faythe and Jace started in Stray even though technically Marc and Faythe weren't together, they might as well have been. The moment Jace made his feelings for Faythe known was the beginning of the love triangle because his feelings were seriouss and gave Faythe options which she took seriously. I think that no matter who Faythe ends up with (please God don't let it be Jace) there will be a love triangle, since the one not chosen will still be in love with Faythe, and as strongly as she feels for both men, she will constantly be fighting her attraction to one, and clinging to the other, keeping the triangle alive. In short, anytime there is viable threat to a couple by an third party a love triangle is created. Even when a choice is made a third party's unrequited love is enough for a triangle. Just for the record, I would love to see Kaylee in a love triangle, Nash needs some competion. I like the idea of Brant from MSTK. I will say this for the love triangle you have created in the Shifters series the fact that as a reader you may pick either Marc or Jace for Faythe to be with, but regardless of who she chooses you know she is getting a good one.
To me, love triangles involve two people who have feelings for one person, whether or not that person reciprocates the feelings of either party!
I guess the short answer would be that any relationship, that involves individuals feelings and involves 3 people is a love triangle and can be explored on a number of levels.
In the first example the foundations are set for a love triangle, however due to the Mark and Faythe existing relationship and the fact that Jake is not suitable Alfa Material, options are not yet there for the characters until circumstances change. The situation still involves 3 people who have feelings for each other on an intense level.
The second example involves Faythe choosing Jace over Mark for whatever reason. The 3 people involved would still have feelings for eachother and so effects the behaviour of their characters and how they interact.
I am not a writer tho... so not sure this helps. I do love your books and look forward to reading Alpha!
Meg
Like some of the other posts...I think it is all about possibilities. If there is more than one character interested in the protag...the possibility is there. Thus, love triangle vibes. I love the triangle (or square) because it makes the life of the protag much more interesting. How boring is..."oh, I love you!" "Oh, I love you, too!" Seems kind of monotonous unless you have someone else break up the love fest a bit.
Love triangles are the most interesting thing to read about. i love the three of them but i don't think this is much of a triangle unless Faythe acts on the feelings toward Jace again. as much as i like Jace, i really hope Faythe and Mark end up together.
I think it will always be a triangle because either way Faythe will still love both of them in some way. You can obviously love more than one person at a time. And love one person more than another. It is a very hard choice because Jace has really matured into who he can become and both of them would make an awesome mate. I like both of them, but either way there is going to be heart break. Until the person that is left behind finds someone else to love. But even then there will still be the love they felt for each other still there. It just doesn't go away. It may mellow or fade a bit, but will alwways be there. I feel like Jace has more options if he isn't chosen. Marc is still looked down upon by others as a stray. Faythe's family is one of the few that excepts him. I want Jace to take over Malone's pack, because it should have been his anyways. And I think he can be an Alpha.
HI i have a question for you and well, what ages should be reading your Soul Screamers series ?
So as for the love triangle, I think that makes for many interesting story lines and has a major role in many books and life in general. That is where so much drama comes from.
As for Faythe, I wouldn't have really considered her in a love triangle when you first introduced her and Jaces' interaction. But before the end of the book it was very obvious that Faythe was "flirting" and just that can easily lead to the triangle. I never took their relationship to be "brotherly" or "just friends". I always felt she really might be interested in the possibility.
But that being said, using the Twilight Saga as an example, I never saw the love triangle people see with Edward and Jacob. I've always seen that Bella's relationship with Jacob was more of a brotherly friendship. I really feel there needs to be flirting on both sides for it to be a real triangle. I really don't think there needs to be an encounter to make it a triangle, it's more about the feelings.
Now for unrequited love, I don't think that is a real triangle unless they have been involved. Faythe, Marc & Jace will always be a triangle even if she chooses one for the long haul. Until the other leaves for good and never comes back, those feelings will always be in question.
normally i hate them i always feel bad for the other guy and i really hate it when they introduce a character later in the series to be in a love triangle that really bugs me ... but right now i kinda hate nash so if u had k start dating t i would so be ok with that =)
I guess I consider it a triangle when one person of the couple is torn between two loves. The Faythe/Marc/Jace one is killing me. They both seem like good choices but I do lean towards Marc. :/ Triangles are hard and the writer has to strike the right balance. I am waiting with bated breath to see how you resolve this, especially since Jace was so much less of a jerk at the end of Pride. Either way it goes, I'm sure my emotions will run the gamut by the end.
Love triangles are always good for books, they make things more interesting, just generally spices things up. In the Shifters stories, Faythe has a big decision on her hands. Since the very beginning, I've liked both Marc and Jace. Jace obviously had real feelings for her, as did Marc. In my opinion, Faythe would be good with either one.
But that doesn't fully answer the love triangle question. I consider it a triangle when one person is drawn equally to two people, and those two people know about it. I don't consider it one if all "participants" don't know. Such as when Jace and Faythe first got together, and Marc didn't at that time know, I didn't see a love triangle then.
In any case, Faythe can't go wrong with either one. :)
I believe a love triangle to be any two sides (in this case, people) connected by the same point (in this case, a person).
I suppose you could have both emotional and physical love triangles. Faythe has always been involved in an emotional one, as there was always tension there, an opportunity could arise at any moment.
x
I do believe Faythe, Marc and Jace were in a triangle before they acted on it because well emotionally the points were all there. Jace felt something for Faythe and they all knew it; Faythe felt something for Jace in someway and of course Marc's feelings for Faythe were abundantly clear. It is a triangle when the emotions are involved not just the actions.
If Marc and Faythe were to break up it will still be a triangle unless Faythe cuts Marc from her life completely. Then it's just a guy wanting what he can't have. Same with Jace; if Faythe and Marc stay together he'd have to be removed from her life or it's a triangle.
But all points have to have some sort of emotional interest otherwise it's just stalking. Like if I see a couple and discover I have feelings for one of them...it's so not a triangle. But if I see a couple and I have feelings for the guy and he sorta likes me and loves his girlfriend still but we never actually act on it...I consider that a triangle.
I'm afraid to read the last book in the series, I'm actually hoping that Faythe ends up with both of them even though I know there is little chance of it happening. In my opinion that would be the perfect ending
For what it's worth... I guess I never really thought about Marc, Faythe and Jace as being a love triangle. Faythe loves Marc and vice versa. Jace loves Faythe, but she doesn't really return the love - just the physical attraction. I mean, she cares what happens to Jace, but it's not the same as what she feels for Marc. :shrug: I guess I'll just wait to see how you write it from here on out. =o)
Any time a third party, who is either a love interest or potential love interest (even if it is only in their own mind), causes change in a relationship, I would consider that a love triangle.
I do consider the Marc/Faythe/Jace situation a love triangle, and have since their flirtation in "Stray". In hindsight, it seems as though Jace always had an attraction to Faythe, even though he never acted on it.
So even if Faythe wasn't technically "involved" with Jace until Prey, the chemistry between Faythe and Jace definately causes some ripples between Marc and Fayther throughout the series.
There are many ways to be "involved" with people, and cheating comes in many forms.
BTW, the love triangle is my favorite part of these books.
I'm just going to say it, I love reading about love triangles. There is just something about them that hooks me into a story! I consider a Love Triangle when: One person in the relationship, has have feelings (requited or unrequited) for another person outside of the relationship.
I think that not everyone's hearts has to be involved to be a triangle. To use our shifters as an example: It would be like, if Faythe and Marc were together and Faythe also was in love (or lust) with Jace (even if he didn't love her). And Faythe's love for Jace, is getting in the way of her current relationship.
On the other hand, I didn't consider the Faythe/Marc/Jace situation a true love triangle, until Faythe acted. If Jace just lusted after and flirted with Faythe, that's not a triangle.
I see the need for triangles in the story plots. They serve a purpose. If Marc and Faythe fell back in love and got engaged in the first book, I'm pretty sure I would have tuned out a long time ago. Though this series is not based strictly around their romance, it is definitely one of my favorite parts of the series.
This is making my head hurt ; )
Every individual experiences thoughts, feelings and emotions he/she doesn't intend to experience.The chief of these emotions being love.
Just like anger, anxiety and fear, love is something everyone experiences at different capacities and levels. And just like most facets of our lives, a lot of our feelings are uncontrollable however the way we react to these emotions are somewhat controllable regardless of reciprocation.
I'm not in favour of love triangles. When I say love triangle, I mean when a person has two love interests and is physically acting on his/her feelings for each love interest. I'd consider a love triangle to still exist if the same person acts on two love interests and one of those aren't all that interested.
To acknowledge that more than one person has feelings for the same individual is one thing; and it could be good, for it allows the individual the choice to choose wisely and deliberate on the choice. But to act on this love while in a relationship with another, well that's quite different.
It's a question of loyalty and morality, I think. In my perfect world, monogamy and loyalty would be stedfast both in theory and practice. But it isn't my perfect world and people do things they later learn to resent. That's life, it seems.
My opinion on love triangles has changed the more I read about them. I find them overused and I have a tendency to dislike them instantly but the storyline and the characterisation is usually more important than the relationship statuses. Usually because the storyline and characters depict the nature of the triangle and if I consider a setting or character moral or wise then I would continue reading in hope that the triangle will be resolved and deteriorate into a learning experience as the plot develops.
In short, the reason I'm opposed to love triangles is because they contradict my idea of a perfect world.
I LOVE reading about love triangles. They make the story exciting and give that extra thrill. Of course readers will always have their favourite between the 2 candidates vying for the attention and love of the 3rd party, but it gives a certain uncertainty which I find titillating.
I do consider unrequited love a triangle... TECHNICALLY.
But if all has been seriously resolved within the story, then Marc's love is no longer as important to me... in the sense of him fighting to get her back etc.
His love and devotion to her will always be something I will admire about his character though.. :D
I think that love triangles keep stories interesting. If the only relationship in the whole book goes through no problems (such as being attracted to another or liking someone else) it makes the relationship unrealistic.
Most relationships do go through something like that and it makes it a lot more exciting to read about.
I personally think in the next Soul Screamers book that Kaylee should become a lot more closer to Tod and maybe develop a romantic relationship with him. It would certainly be amazing to read (I love Tod and Kaylee together). I think it would be a good addition to the story.
I think that there are many definitions of a love triangle.
One person liking two people is considered a love triangle to me.
Also, (I'll use SoulScreamers for example) lets say if Tod liked Kaylee (WHICH WOULD BE AWESOME) but she liked Nash, then I also consider that a love triangle. Anything dealing with three people and romance is considered a love triangle to me.
Something I read is that Tod sees Kaylee as a sister or something like that, and I don't think that's true. I think Tod's always sort of liked Kaylee. I also think that in the series she should start to like Tod. It'd be interesting to see a love triangle like that, especially since Tod and Nash are brothers.
Just something to think about I guess Rachel :-)
(If you reading this, you should deff consider Tod and Kaylee ;-)
Your a great author.
I like love triangles in fiction. It gives that odd sense of what is going on and it is something a little less tense to keep you guessing. I have read shifters and I am addicted to the series, and the triangle has kept me thinking. I think it is an important aspect in fiction.
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